vit_r: default (Default)
[personal profile] vit_r
This post is written in English because it is very important.

Previous part: Physics works with bullet prof good enough models, mathematics works with brittle absolute models



2. Scientific models are created to find the truth, engineering models are created to become true



580 words, reading time: 2.5 minutes, further mental damage for some software developers.

Many centuries the sentence "People cannot fly" was a proven scientific fact. Generations of engineers tried to create models to deny this. They built mechanical constructions created on base of this models and experimented with them.

As you know engineers finally had succeeded.

Note, science does not change the world we live in. It can explain, describe, classify, suggest, predict something in the reality but it does not try to affect it.

Scientists protect the purity of their sciences behind the walls of an ivory tower. And the mathematicians live on the very top of it. They work with clean graceful abstractions far above the mud of our earthly life.

If someone tries to apply mathematics for some real world tasks and fails, a mathematician says: "I'm right! My formulas are correct. My theorems are correct. They must work. It fails because this person does not understand obvious things and is poorly educated".

Engineers do not have a luxurious protected imaginary world. They are forced to fight head on against all disturbances and imperfections. If something goes wrong, they roll up their sleeves and start to search for their own errors and real world facts they have not considered in their models.

Only at the end of a long journey through trials and errors, optimistic expectations and bitter disappointments, careful examinations and bold assumptions, small corrections and big changes an engineer can say "We have solved all problems. It flies. I am Wright."

Engineers respect mathematicians. But this admiration is distant. If mathematicians climb down from their ivory tower and try to touch something real, they turn for engineers into a walking disaster.

The ways this two groups interact with the world are too different.

Mathematicians try to find universal solutions for all possible cases. Engineers seek for simplest ways to solve actual known problems.

Mathematicians introduce highest abstraction levels they can think out and use obscure terms to describe them. Engineers mirror real world objects in their models and speak language that users, managers and experts from other fields can easily understand.

Mathematicians strive for perfection. Engineers tolerate ugliness, if it produces acceptable quality and allows to save time, money and other resources.

Mathematicians take for granted that all conditions they expect will always be fulfilled. Engineers check input values for plausibility.

Mathematicians blame users. Engineers write user manuals.

The most explosive quality of a mathematical brain are its error prevention habits.

Engineers know that all humans make mistakes, all their plans are uncertain, all their creations contain hidden defects. Engineers do not demand any kindness from this world and are ready for unexpected turns.

They always await unknown errors. Anything incorrect will be immediately stopped, documented, reported and analysed.

Engineers remove their own mistakes, reject wrong assumptions, find hidden defects, add new patches and adapt their software to the real world.

Mathematicians behave as if they are saints living in a perfect universe. They do not let defective data or stupid users to affect their precious beautiful formulas.

Mathematicians almost always try to accept anything silently and consistently. This includes values and actions that are not correct or do not have any useful meaning. Mathematicians call them "variations" or "special cases" and think out tricky ways to include them into regular processing.

If a field "Age" contains a negative value, this is a user's problem. For a mathematician "-32" is also a number.

From the point of view of an engineer mathematicians that try to write software are simply dangerous.


Next part: Mathematics is inhuman

Date: 2017-09-05 01:10 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jamhed
Well, -32 isn't an input and isn't an output. We don't know its uses, the only thing we know it is a variable named 'age' with a value -32. Why it has such a value, or how, isn't relevant. In a properly designed system variables of name 'age' always has correct values, and recent type theory achievements such as type inference make it possible.

Date: 2017-09-05 01:59 pm (UTC)
juan_gandhi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] juan_gandhi
It was a simplifications, of course.

I'd rather ponder about how math as known to the humans now can be applied. Imagine we switch to using real numbers.

Date: 2017-09-05 02:39 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jamhed
If you want to deal with the real numbers, then symbolic computation to the rescue, but my bet this is not what vit_r meant.
Edited Date: 2017-09-05 02:40 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-09-05 02:41 pm (UTC)
juan_gandhi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] juan_gandhi
This partially makes sense; but we already discussed this with the author and others.

Date: 2017-09-05 02:43 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jamhed
Yeah, I vaguely recall it too, probably it was in your journal.

Date: 2017-09-05 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jamhed
Well, maybe there is a subtle difference between a value and how it is displayed to be perceived as erroneous, but I don't get it anyway. Let us assume the value is either correct, or it is not any given moment, to simplify things a bit. So, if you see an incorrect value somewhere in your system, then the system is badly designed, isn't it? And anyone could design a system this way, nothing special is about mathematicians here. Or mathematics per se.

> achievements in the type theory would not protect

They would make certain classes of errors obsolete, like this one. But sure, you can always make other engineering errors anyway. Hence the next hot question, how to actually prove a program works as designed. And afaik there are some recent advances in this field too.

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