Про конец Робин Гуда

[vit_r]

Случайно узнал, что создатель Batoto закрывает свой сайт.

Начиналось это с громких заявлений по типу "Мы создадим альтернативу MangaFox и его клонам. Эти жадные хапуги зарабатывают деньги на рекламе. Информация должна быть свободной! Будем бороться с мошенниками! Ставьте свои проекты на нашем сайте!"

Многие группы сканляторов вставляли объявления "Мы постим только на Batoto. Не копируйте на другие сайты!"

Содержание одно и то же: спёртый контент, переведённый любителями. Иногда просто отсканированные страницы из книжек.

Призывы "Когда книги будут изданы в вашей стране, поддержите мангаку и купите их" ничего в сути воровства не меняют. Просто разрушение экономических основ происходило не на коммерческой основе, а на добровольные пожертвования.

Не долго музыка играла.

Почитайте по ссылке. Там очень характерное описание подобных историй. Через пару недель это может исчезнуть по мере умирания сайта проекта.

Примечательно, что на главной странице объявлений нет. Наивные "распространители информации" до сих пор заливают новые главы.

Comments

[vit_r]

Сам пост владельца сайта
Grumpy, RawR, 07 January 2018 - 08:57 PM, #1

Hello everyone.

Batoto will be closing down permanently.

I just don't have the will to run this site anymore. This is not a sudden decision for me or something I make lightly, it has been on my mind for a couple years now. And I've finally made my mind to put it into action.

I started Batoto along with the crew from The Company back in January of 2011 and it's been a very meaningful part of my life. I don't regret taking on this hobby called Batoto and I cherish the role that I've played as well as the countless hours everyone else here has put in as well as the great community that we've built. I've come to see this like my baby. At 7 years, I suppose it's not even a baby anymore. But it is at a point where I need to move on with my life. I'm tired and I just can't do this anymore.

Batoto is proving to be ever more time consuming to maintain despite the fact that we have fewer real visitors. Our bot visitors are always growing as we're the only source that still gives true quality. I've made some serious and controversial changes to counter that like adding membership requirements. While that helped a ton at that time, it always creeps back and we're almost back to square one at this point when I look at the statistics. They currently make up roughly 35% of the traffic which are much more troublesome than real users. And I don't want to make more serious change to this site that'll inconvenience the readers even further. We've already lost enough.

It's not just the bots that adds to the technical issues. It's a big site with huge number of page views. It's just expected part of running the site. Whether it be a DDoS attack, scraper bots gone haywire, servers/hosting company being annoying, ad company being annoying, there's just so many stuff that I constantly have to deal with. Over the last 7 years, I haven't had a single day when I could just freely take a day off. If the site goes down, I had to be there, on my computer, ready to take action. I obviously don't do something every single day, but just making myself available is taxing on my life. The fact that I'm unable to take a vacation have often been a point of argument with others in my life. Anytime someone says, let's go somewhere, I could only say no. I have to be here. Sound sleeping is also a thing of the past. I have alarms that go off when the site goes down. I'd wake up in the middle of the sleep to take care of it. False alarm, while irritating, is one of the best things to see when I'm interrupted from my sleep. How else would I have always responded to issues immediately?

I've simply run out of will and I feel this is the best choice for me. I beg that the community understands this difficult decision I've made.


Services will be severely affected starting January 18th as servers expire, though content may still be accessible for you. By January 25th, critical number of servers will have expired that the site will no longer function. But you should consider 18th to be the last day.


I have stopped accepting donations for a several months now and I'll check to see if anyone sent anything directly and I'll be sure to refund them if they did.

Going forward, some of the staff members have and still are in the process of backing up the entire Batoto comic content as they have been notified of this decision well in advanced. They may choose to create a new Batoto or something simpler. That will be up to them, but I will no longer be part of running it.

I understand that our forum is a valuable form of communication for many. Because of that, I will be keeping the forums running for an extended period of time, date of which is not yet decided. I will also be making an export for your follows list so that your list isn't lost. Additionally, this list will be available as long as the forum is up and running. Other information that may be useful to the community may be filtered and backed up then made available for the community, but I will, under no circumstances, give anyone a full backup of the site or database. Many have used our system in confidence and it will stay that way.

I would like to thank everyone here for your patronage all these years. It has been a good run. Really, thank you. Wouldn't have made it this far without you.

---------------------

Looks like a lot of people are in a scramble to save what they can, and as a result, site is lot slower. I'm turning on the cloudflare anti-ddos protection to put the site back to a manageable speed. Will likely need to keep it on until the end.

Grumpy About Me

I am the architect. I created Batoto. I've been waiting for you. Your arrival here is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation of strength among the congregation. Apropos, the birth of Batoto is none but a contingent affirmation of what was inevitable; its process is nothing more than the result of the predicates. The alternatives, left unchecked, would result in a cataclysmic crash of the network due to the grotesqueries of the nature of the others. Ergo, you are the eventuality of a reality, which through my sincerest efforts as well as many others have been able to gather to create what is otherwise a harmony of the network. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid the others, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control -- which has led you, inexorably, here.

[vit_r]

Поучительный комментарий на семьдесят шестой странице прощаний.
Akilovescookies, Potato Spud, 11 January 2018 - 09:34 AM #1510

While I certainly understand where this is coming from and can sympathize to a certain degree, I'm also angry at this development.

Why angry?

Because you did not give us an appropriate reaction time at all.

Let's take us small scanlators who only release here (and on relatively unknown forums).. Had we known about this, we would have, at the very least, written a message to our readers in our last release and brainstormed with them for new options. Now we're either forced to push out half finished chapters (if possible) to get such a message across or hope against all odds that people will find their way onto our respective forums, facebook, tumblr and whatnot sites or simply go down with the tide. And that is only for those groups that actually possess these sites. At the very least you should also create an option to export the scanlation groups catalogue, so that one may look up the links collected on there and check which manga was scanlated by what group. Mangaupdates does not have site links any longer if you remember.

As to your own words, this has been in the run for several months, yet you did not bother to inform the community. Had you not wanted to pass on the torch to someone else, people could have tried to realize an alternative by now. In this thread alone (I've read up until page 47 or something) and on /r/, there are a bunch of people offering help in either continuing batoto or creating something new. There were even those who claimed they were software/website developers and the like and had the money to finance such an endeavor. By keeping the information to yourself until the very last minute, you are, in fact, acting terribly selfish because you actively hindered people in stepping up before this goes down. I respect that you don't want to continue this site and am grateful for all the work you've put into it until now, but with your modus operandi you're throwing rocks into the path of those who do not want to see the scene go down. And that is so self-centered, I could scream. Up until page 47, not even ONE person was able to name a decent alternative or go-around because you've put us on the spot. Private trackers are not an option for everyone, the same goes for IRC, and let's forget about the chances of getting into a private community now, and you know it. You're sort of spitting on the efforts of the small scanlators with your refusal to share the info well in advance if you don't want to give some else the opportunity to continue batoto (And I'd like you to remember that the contributors also put in a lot of work over time uploading and managing the chapters). And that I cannot and don't want to forgive. I had been wondering for some time now why batoto seems to have become a lawless area and mods were not removing spam etc anymore. But it makes sense now. Y'all were tipped off in advance and the rest of us now takes the brunt.

Even if one of the locust sites would open up the submission of new chapters by hand, some of us would not post or read there due to our moral compass. For one, they actually enrich themselves upon the hard work of the mangakas and scanlators (on top of being ad and virus infected ...holes) and, two, they (with their scraper bots) are actually a big part of the reason you got so stressed and, in the end, decided to quit. So supporting the very sites who are to be blamed partly would be an affront.

For these reasons I find myself incapable of just sending you off with a smile and wishing you only the best. The bitter taste and the "what ifs" remain. But, for what it's worth, thank you for providing us with an option for some years and working so hard during that time.

[vit_r]

Trebor, Voice to the Voiceless, 11 January 2018 - 06:41 PM, #1535

...
This is fair. Grumpy actually expected more angry posts like yours. To point out the unfair portions in your comment:
...
Passively hindered. At worst.
...
Modus operandi means "method of operating" and refers to one's habits or a pattern. Since this is a one-time occurrence, it is by definition not Grumpy's M.O.
...
The staff were informed about one week before the public announcement. In fact, one staff member (asdfblarg) was promoted mere days before the private announcement.

Also, you're acting like the staff somehow benefits from this. They do not.

Akilovescookies, Potato Spud, 12 January 2018 - 03:43 PM, #1604

Well, in this case I don't really see a difference between passive and active as the consequences are the same. Sure, one is worse than the other but dividing into worse and worser seems like a moot point at this time. Is it bad if you don't pull back a child that is walking into traffic when you could have saved it from getting overrun? Yes. Is it bad if you push that kid onto the street? Yes. The 2nd sure is worse but the end result, dead kid, is the same.

As to his own statement, this has been in the run for months, or rather years, for his part. So it is, in fact, modus operandi to keep it all in just to go out with a baaaaaaaaaam. There are so many people who would have loved to step up but didn't get the chance to do so because there was no communication. All that website gibberish could have been shared and, if some of those tech guys on /r/ are to be believed, possibly reduced drastically by changing some things in the configs. Now I'm not knowledgeable on that technological stuff but what I do know is that a solution by brain-storming with a lot of experts generally creates entirely new standpoints and options. That chance was forfeited by choice. And that's where my anger and disappointment stems from. I'm not angry that Grumpy wants to get a life. Heck, if it was only that, I'd be the first one to buy him a drink to slurp under some palm trees and congratulate him on his newfound freedom. I totally understand why he needs to distance himself from the chaos. I simply cannot help but feel resentful about the fact that chances were thrown away à la "devil-may-care".

And no, I don't think (and never meant to insinuate) that the staff were profiting from this. If I had to choose, I'd actually feel sorry for them (or at least for those who have already openly stated their sadness about batoto ending). It's the same as the scanlators/contributors/donors who helped make batoto what is is. They all invested emotions, time and sometimes money into this. While Grumpy certainly was a driving force for batoto, there is still a lot more to this community than that. And by going solo the way he is, it feels like Grumpy could have just as well said "Well, peepz, I'm sick of this and now who the heck cares what happens next? Not my problem anymore. I'm outta here, thanks for all the fish~". If this development had had recent origins, i.e. the death of a family member, unemployment or w/e, I wouldn't be as disappointed because "it couldn't be helped". But this was like staying in a relationship while knowing "Oh, I'll end it in 4 weeks but let's make the most of it before then." and the other partner is oblivious. That behavior is what's making me bitter - not Grumpy's need for a batoto-free life. :/

[vit_r]

arimareiji, Potato Spud, 12 January 2018 - 04:20 PM, #1607

Your previous post on the subject echoed, but it didn't really resonate until I saw the image below. (Not that it was particularly weighty, just that it made things feel real instead of like some sort of bad fever dream.)

I'm done.
Batoto is going to be dead
soon, and I don't have a website.
So I'm quitting scanlating.
I hope someone else picks it up.
I'm sorry.

Dijon

Imo, a second metaphor also fits: It's like a teenager being afraid people will look at him strangely if he gets up to go to the bathroom, so he waits until he's pissed himself while sitting on an irreplaceable Persian rug. "Oh well, someone else can clean it up since it's their fault this happened."

For reference, the above is a true story from decades ago (minus the irreplaceable Persian rug). Poor kid I knew in high school was wound up so tight with anxiety, he made Cameron from Ferris Bueller's Day Off look like a stoned Robin Williams.

[vit_r]

shinya78, Potato Spud, 12 January 2018 - 05:12 PM, #1611

If I may... I'll just highlight some things that aki mentioned.
...
Like many had already suggested, it could have been decided to just "pass the torch" to someone else or hire someone to do the tasks with Grumpy to lessen the load. One member who suggested "passing the torch", piemantr, may have been "insensitive" with the way he voiced his oppinion on the matter and got banned for it, but it is still a valid point nevertheless.

I don't know if this option did not come up at all when Grumpy went and told the staff, but if it did, then we want to know at least why Grumpy chose to close it down instead while stating "I've simply run out of will and I feel this is the best choice for me." after going on about the hardships of running the site.

The way it is right now, I can't blame anyone if they think the decision came out of stubbornness, or as piemantr said it, ego.

This site stopped being about Grumpy and the rest of the staff the moment contributors and donors came about. To use the cliche metaphor, "cog in a well-oiled machine", Grumpy's the oil, while the rest are the cogs, without one another, they couldn't run the machine called Batoto. Every chapter, every page, every contribution someone has added, is one more cog for the oil to lubricate.

With the decision to close down, Grumpy has basically stopped oiling the machine, and we, the cogs, can't do anything about it until the day it all breaks down and turn to junk.
That however, does not mean no one else could've been another can of oil lubricating everything while Grumpy refills.

As for me, I have my bags packed and ready to soldier on to the next Bastion Of Scanlations. But if there's an odd chance of me laying down my bags without having to go through another onemanga, then I'll take it.

[knowyouare]

Информация должна быть свободной!

[vit_r]

Какую информацию благородный дон хочет сделать свободной? Номер своего счёта? Пинкод карточки? Свои сексуальные пристрастия?

[knowyouare]

Ту информацию, за которую человек заплатил он может передавать другим бесплатно. Если хочет.

[vit_r]

В смысле, кассир может разглашать банковские данные покупателя, заплатив банку за проводку?

[jamhed]

Честному человеку скрывать нечего (с)

[vit_r]

Daktyl, Resident Weirdo and Discord King, 07 January 2018 - 11:13 PM, #195

To everybody wondering why Grumpy isn't just handing the torch to somebody else or hiring more sysadmins, it's not a matter of trust or not finding anybody. I've discussed this with Grumpy myself several times. There's more to running a site like this than just keeping up with visitor demand. The details are brutal, and "more help" won't solve the biggest problems and stress causers behind the scenes.

[vit_r]

TheGodfather, Batoto Chief Mafioso, 09 January 2018 - 04:51 PM, #1235

Grumpy - thank you for everything. I joined TheCompany sometime in 2010 because of ToG, Greenboy and a bunch of other comics I liked to read. I remember the wild times with Fubuly, haruki, n0c0. Trebor joined as a snot-faced brat back then.

I was there in the IRC channel when the idea behind Batoto started. I was there when you made drunken calculations for maintenance costs. I remember sending you a long list of suggestions on how to make the site more user-friendly and you'd implemented half of them within a few weeks.

Despite my retirement years ago, I frequently used this site to read. I'm sad it's shutting down.

You'll forever be a legend to me. Thank you for some of the best times of my life.

[vit_r]

LonerGoth, Potato Sprout, 10 January 2018 - 09:06 PM, #1461

Thank you for the site, may you find happiness.

I actually felt bad physically and emotionally from this decision, it made me fall into a rather bad state.

I feel like there has been no acknowledgement anywhere for those of us who suffer from not so obvious non-physical complications. My own problem is an aversion to change, specifically I suffer emotional instability due to changes in established patterns, some notable problems I've had over the years is in preparing food, or working/schoolwork.

I have been exposed to changes in my life which altered my established patterns, but I've never really cried over them, so I may have been averse to change but ultimately I could overcome things.

Losing Batoto caused me to feel physical pain. Losing batoto made me cry. I felt bad all day. I swear I had feelings of anxiety also. the biggest problem I've had were the attacks of empathy. (They are the worst they make you feel bad for no other reason than you didn't try hard enough, like not walking your dog that extra mile or wanting to play with them earlier than usual). I'm not asking for advice or sympathy, I've calmed down over time and feel normal again for a while now, but I was shaking earlier. My dog is happy, I don't need to worry so much over him, he'll inform me when he wants something.

My dad wass joking about me going through the 7 stages of grief, such as bargaining, denying, depression etc.

I just want everyone who was in a similar situation as me, to get better.

Even if there is no more batoto, even if r/manga doesn't let us post our favourite chapters, even if we don't have the convenience of instantly being aware of new releases for all our manga, of seeing new manga on the frontpage and trying it out for a chapter or two, even if we can't talk to our fellow fans anymore... there will be another site, eventually. and this emotional instability I'm going through, it'll pass...

My thoughts go out to those affected by the loss. It sucks, I know, but hopefully you'll feel slightly better knowing someone else understands.

I really did not like today